Teen Gothic

In Tupiniquin lands, on the opposite side of the ocean there is a counterculture rich in arts in general! Shall we discuss?

I started listening to goth music, and so far my favorite songs are "Starfall" and "Winterborn" by "The Cruxshadows" and "Monolith" by "Twin Tribes" & "Fronterawave"

I've loved Emo, Punk and Goth fashion for awhile now, and have listened to a decent amount of Emo and Punk, but I'm relatively new to Goth music.

I think that Monolith is what made me fall absolutely in love with the subculture though. I think this was my turning point haha.

anyway, I would love it

So as stated before, I prefer to take a descriptive rather than prescriptive approach to subcultures and their boundaries. I'm not saying what goth should be, but rather attempting to describe a cultural milieu I spend time in. I have no interest in telling any person whether or not they can call themselves goth, and I'm not here for "is X band actually goth or actually goth-inflected darkwave?" debates (at least here, they can be a lot of fun between friends when attempting to organize a record collection).

But I've been thinking about the term "music-based subculture" and why that's important, and frankly, a more open and welcoming approach to creating a basis for a subculture than other options we might consider.

Goth is undoubtedly a subculture, and a subculture is something that is communal. Subcultures are first and foremost communities, and the other thing about subcultures is typically, they have to have something they do because you have to have some reason to get large groups of people to hang out. You can't just be like "Let's have an event where everyone who does velvet paintings of Elvis stands in a room together".

Music as a basis for a subculture is a popular choice because playing/listening to/dancing to music is possibly one of the oldest large-group social activities there is. Music is a fantastic way to create an ambience and to get a large group of people feeling in tune with one another.

Music is a draw for events and has a relatively low barrier of entry. As opposed to, say, modifying trucks, which requires a large material investment to buy a truck to modify before you can participate, or even a fashion-based subculture, which also again is generally more expensive to enter.

That's what's cool about a music-based subculture: the events are open to anyone who likes the sound of the music, and the cost of entry is generally low.

You don't have to have your look sorted out to become a member. If there is a look, generally the friends you make through the music help you figure out how to do it (should you want to) which is far less intimidating than showing up to a fashion-based event when you're not really sure how to do it yet.

Music is the basis of goth because without the music, you don't have gigs and DJ nights, and basically all the places and spaces you go to make friends as a goth who wants to hang out with other goths.

There are subcultures based around many things, like fondness for anime, an interest in fly fishing, or a passion for Medieval Persian poetry, but every subculture has to have something to *do (*whether it's cosplay contests, fly fishing, or attending lectures on Medeival Persian poetry). If gothness were merely a vibe, well, there wouldn't be that central activity that allows for goth-as-subculture to be a thing. You can't have a community based around a vibe; there has to be some activity to go with the vibe, and with goth, thankfully, it's music.

And in a world as isolating and atomized as ours presently is, I think that remembering that the music is what creates the environments that allow birds of a feather (black or otherwise) to flock together is important, because subcultures are milieus that create lasting and meaningful relationships.

Music and dance are really magical in the way they create a common bond between people experiencing them together. That's why music-based subcultures tend to be so rich and generate so much culture around the music.

In reminding people that fundamentally the music is the basis for the whole thing, we keep the doors far more open than we would if we were to define it through adoption of a specific style of dress, and by defining it as something we create a point clear enough for people to actually gather around, and that's a good thing.

i've been exploring a lot of bands ranging from the 80's to modern day artists, from postpunk to darkwave & deathrock, perhaps a lil tinge of synthpop & new wave for the past 2 years — each in their own respect: absolutely beautiful. the overall identity & aesthetics of being goth is just such a pleasure to indulge in.

the darker things in life i feel are not for everyone of course, but the sounds (basslines, synths, tempos), lyrical content, attire & themes are just so nice. i've always felt on the outlier of social circles growing up, & as a metalhead when i was young along with my expanding knowledge of this community i have felt at home within such more so than any other communities. you are all so welcoming & kind. ♡♡

i just wanted to express my love & appreciation for such a beautiful way of life/subculture, you all are magnificent & fuck anybody who says you're too old, too weird, that you shouldn't do this or that, etc; we make our own paths in life & nobody else has a goddamn say in our expressions.

I was talking about this with a friend of mine a few days ago, and I think it's a great subject for a chat in the comments!!

mine was The Smiths (classic), when I was about 13yo, then I started to listen to the cure, and getting deeper in the culture, and now i listen to almost all different subgenres in the musics.

since then, I also started to study more about the architecture and literature, as well as politics, and when I was about 14 I felt secure enough to start applying aesthetic in my daily life!

Ok, I'm a complete babybat and I'm still learning about all this. The quote from the title is NOT something that I said but it was something an "elder experienced goth" told me and I'm not sure whether that person is being truthful or not.

This elder Goth talks about how Goth "HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNK" because "goth was the opposite reaction to the ultra political movement of punk and it's only based in art and every sociopolitical expression should be discarded immediately from the subculture" According to this person "Goth is Apolitical"

This elder Goth also separates the Punk from the Post Punk movement and says that "Post Punk was created out of this "'Punk is dead' realization and it's meant to NOT be political at all because it seeks the opposite of what Punk was = zero involvement in politics" This person also discards ABSOLUTELY any kind of DIY because "DIY derives from Punk and the Goth Subculture was created from Post Punk NOT from the Punk movement, so it's NOT related at all"

That's sounds really interesting ngl, most of us have the idea that Goth was a direct product of punk but this "elder wise goth" makes a distinction between Punk and Post Punk and explains that Goth was born out of Post Punk as a backlash from Punk politics.

What y'all think about this, do you really think that Goth is COMPLETELY APOLITICAL AND ANY SOCIOPOLITICAL POSITION SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY DISCARDED BECAUSE GOTH IS APOLITICAL (?????????????????)

I'm going to be honest, I'm not 100% sure about what this person told me because this "elder wise goth" is a transphobic and has stalked and has harassed others Goths online with the excuse of "correcting them" about the origins of the subculture.

I am not intending on starting a flame war in the comments, I am only curious as to individual feelings.

From what I've seen and experienced in the subculture, there is a massive fear of making a mistake or not being "the perfect goth" as that happens in most communities and it especially intimidating to newer people. In truth pretty much all of us have made some sort of mistake or mess up at some point in our time here. So why not share some mistakes we've all made to make things seem less intimidating and to also help out others from making the same! No mistake being too dumb, and please be kind to others who share theirs!

I'll go first:

When I was twelve and first starting out, one of my friend's older sisters' was goth and recommended Sex Gang Children. She told me about how they were one of the first and how important they were to the subculture. I wanted to look into them more so I read an article stating that they were the ones who came up with the word "goth" as well as skimmed through their wiki page and majorly misread it. Culture Club was originally going to be named Sex Gang Children but renamed it and then the now actual band then got it officially. However, in my twelve year old short attention span mind I misread it as Culture Club was the same as Sex Gang Children and for a full year I thought that Karma Chameleon himself, Boy George, was the one who came up with name for the subculture. For some reason tween me just went on thinking this without double checking until I saw something about the actual band and it always gives me a good laugh looking back!

Curious to know what people think. Hard facts, sources, and statistics would be awesome but opinions are cool too!